## How should the Holy Grail system be billed?

Started by VLS, Dec 10, 2022, 12:24 AM

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#### HardMan

Quote from: BlueBuzzard on Jan 07, 2023, 05:38 PM

and unless it's very simple, reverse-engineering it would be too much work for the average gambler who signs up.

When a great system is in place being executed .. is always based on some eternal principles.

Even though this may be posted (mine were & to some extent still are), the hardest task is to assemble them congruently into a shape & form, a dynamic reverberation of it.

When this takes shape & form as a 'current' form /, the complexity is always simplified however complex the purifying & forging of the metal was, it always comes to sharpening the edge.

The observer, however stupid they might be (affect only the amount of time required to grasp), once a great impossibility is realized, it easily gets picked up by & adopted by pretty much the whole civilization in also pretty much on time, taking into the account the ripple effect.

May that be in the scope of an individual or civilization, its always about a critical mass -- may that be the pieces of information & their dynamic, or numbers of them respectively.

With something simplified to the fullest extent of maximizing the edge, however complex = multi-level &or multi-dimensional, having the whole thing revolving in front of one repeatedly, again .. its just a question of time filling in the gaps.

#### 6th-sense

Quote from: BlueBuzzard on Jan 07, 2023, 06:05 PM

Is this first or second hand knowledge? And has it been exhaustively tested? I'm personally skeptical that it can be done. I've seen some systems which have held up amazingly well into 4 standard deviations, but nothing that lasted longer. The law of large numbers is a bitch, lol.

nothing to do with standard deviations...law of large numbers do not apply...all is contained in the pigeon hole principle...

and no its not secondhand knowledge...its first.....vics comment I quoted is virtually near enough...trd is close..

two ups stats is along the way...or should I say his in time part is where it evens up...but that in itself isn,t enough..I dare say the poster on the other forum he quoted has may have identified it...

the reality is for this to work isn,t instant...its long ..its tedious and time consuming...long hours...its draining.....

#### 6th-sense

Quote from: BlueBuzzard on Jan 07, 2023, 05:38 PM

Personally I don't think this is very plausible. There are literal millions of possible systems, and unless it's very simple, reverse-engineering it would be too much work for the average gambler who signs up. Most gamblers are looking for easy money. If they're getting a good return as a paying customer, why would they bother putting in the considerable time and effort needed to crack the code? And if the system is so simple that it would be easy to reverse-engineer, it would be unlikely to work.
But if you're worried about this possibility you could throw in a few "dummy" bets here and there to throw potential crackers off the scent

this is the hardest part...you can see dummy bets when its switched to main bet...dummy bets may lose...you then have to compensate with main bet...you then have to work your way back up to losses flatbetting....this then becomes obvious...you cannot afford to dummy bet...your game will be longer still and blatantly obvious what you are doing ...its long enough already...

#### 6th-sense

I,ll do a one spin number absolute random results where the target bet will still conform to stats using the gaps distance tracker as its the last one I uploaded...on the other thread...not about pigeonhole principle but how it will hold up to past results don,t matter...but on a 1 spin bet it,ll still conform better or even to an ec bet...

but can you apply the pigeonhole principle to it?  I,m not saying you can or cannot....how would you apply it?

do you know enough?

a lot of people think random betting holds up to betting a system...yet the main thought is standard deviations ...you know this doesn't work...its not contained....but random betting totally needs to be partially structured...even if its not going off past results....but that spin itself...in my mind anyway...as its just an example just go easy on me...

#### BlueBuzzard

Quote from: 6th-sense on Jan 07, 2023, 08:03 PM

Quote from: BlueBuzzard on Jan 07, 2023, 06:05 PM

Is this first or second hand knowledge? And has it been exhaustively tested? I'm personally skeptical that it can be done. I've seen some systems which have held up amazingly well into 4 standard deviations, but nothing that lasted longer. The law of large numbers is a bitch, lol.

nothing to do with standard deviations...law of large numbers do not apply...all is contained in the pigeon hole principle...
Not sure what you mean... standard deviation is just a measure of dispersion or variation, and the LLN means that as you get more spins or make more bets the outcome will get closer to the expectation. The concepts apply to whatever system you're using, including ones based on the PHP.

Regarding the dummy bets, you're right that it may introduce losses, but if chosen carefully it need have much of an impact on the main system's edge. As to the possibility of reverse-engineering in general, that has always been a possibility and yet roulette still exists. Any time anyone plays roulette for real money someone is watching. These two facts suggest that either roulette is unbeatable,  or that it's beatable but those who know how to beat it haven't had their systems reverse-engineered. I prefer to believe the latter.

After all, there are many systems and products used everyday by millions, and yet they've never been successfully copied because they are trade secrets and remain secret. Take Coca-cola for example, it's been around for 130 years and yet only the company knows the exact ingredients.

#### TwoUp

Quote from: 6th-sense on Jan 07, 2023, 08:39 PM

I,ll do a one spin number absolute random results where the target bet will still conform to stats using the gaps distance tracker as its the last one I uploaded...on the other thread...not about pigeonhole principle but how it will hold up to past results don,t matter...but on a 1 spin bet it,ll still conform better or even to an ec bet...

but can you apply the pigeonhole principle to it?  I,m not saying you can or cannot....how would you apply it?

do you know enough?

a lot of people think random betting holds up to betting a system...yet the main thought is standard deviations ...you know this doesn't work...its not contained....but random betting totally needs to be partially structured...even if its not going off past results....but that spin itself...in my mind anyway...as its just an example just go easy on me...

I have never seen an example how the pigeon hole principle (PHP) can actually provide an advantage to the bettor. It's a great tool for mathematical proofs and we can also look at results retrospectively and see it obviously confirmed, but where does one get an advantage for the next bet with the PHP given we do not know which hole the pigeon will choose?

#### BlueBuzzard

Quote from: TwoUp on Jan 09, 2023, 08:18 AM

I have never seen an example how the pigeon hole principle (PHP) can actually provide an advantage to the bettor.

Me neither. There are lots of interesting and surprising applications, but for roulette we're concerned with predicting the next number or group, and I don't see how the PHP can help.

#### Albalaha

Hmm. Flat betting Holy Grail will definitely be the one and only holy grail but since we can not speculate as to which bets will win more than they lose by any known methodology(to the best of my knowledge), I do not think it is even possible. Possibly, a flat bet holy grail could lie in hot vs cold or hit vs unhit numbers in a given cycle.
My idea of an EC bet holy grail is having a money management, checking extreme negative variance, keeping amount of bets under control in the worst times along with earning all back in average patch there after. It is a cumbersome process but has been earning for years with some tweaks for me.

#### 6th-sense

Quote from: Albalaha on Jan 15, 2023, 02:35 PM

a flat bet holy grail could lie in hot vs cold or hit vs unhit numbers in a given cycle.

completely incorrect... you can only go with the wheel..on that spin....
Quote from: Albalaha on Jan 15, 2023, 02:35 PM

we can not speculate as to which bets will win more than they lose by any known methodology(

you don't speculate...dyslexic comes to mind....

#### Wally Gator

In my many years of life, I can say unequivocally, and through decades of experience, that the best overall business opportunities rest in partnerships.  The upside far outweigh the down.  Trust is obviously crucial and the financial piece becomes secondary to a purpose. That purpose for this topic has not yet been defined.  Having more money is not a purpose, removing debt is not a purpose, increasing wealth is not a purpose.  A purpose provides those things as ancillary benefit.

I believe there are 5 or 6 who have responded to Vic's topic here.  Think if a partnership were formed and those 5/6 people contributed an equal amount with a goal of doubling their base contribution annually, with wins being reinvested at an agreed upon percentage, and share 50% of any profit to a cause or purpose decided by the group.  Could it make a difference somewhere in the world?  Hope so.

#### VLS

Welcome dear @Wally Gator, I do ponder about this scenario. The most ideal way for benefiting a certain group of players would be a tightly-coupled team indeed, with fair/equal profit sharing.

The system owner would of course contribute the viable method as his share, which is more than fair given that it is this very contribution what sits at the core of the operation and actually makes it work.

Thanks for your participation in the forum!

Email/Paypal: betselectiongmail.com
-- Victor